Chemical Safety at Work - The Podcast

Ep. 14: Lithium-Ion Battery Safety, Testing & Industry Insights with Ryan Hammond

• Storemasta • Season 1 • Episode 14

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Exploring Battery Safety and Innovation with Ryan Hammond of Sealed Performance 

In this episode of Chemical Safety at Work, we’re joined by Ryan Hammond, Director and Electrical Engineer at Sealed Performance Batteries (SPB), to delve into the critical world of battery safety, testing, and innovation. With expertise spanning automotive, industrial, and renewable energy sectors, Ryan shares invaluable insights into battery technology and its implications for workplace safety.

🔋 Topics Covered:

  • What sets high-quality lithium batteries apart from cheaper alternatives.
  • The battery testing process and how it ensures safety and reliability.
  • Global differences in testing standards and the risks of component substitution post-certification.
  • The dangers of improper battery storage and usage, particularly in automotive and industrial contexts.
  • SPB’s commitment to compliance with safety regulations and maintaining a robust supply chain.
  • The future of battery technology.
  • Practical advice for WHS managers to improve battery safety and management protocols.

Whether you’re in automotive, mining, renewable energy, or industrial sectors, this episode is packed with actionable advice and expert perspectives to enhance your understanding of battery safety and innovation.

🔗 Tune in now to learn from an industry leader dedicated to driving safety and excellence in battery technology!
 
 Discover battery management solutions and resources on safe battery practices on the Storemasta Website

⚡Find out more about Sealed Performance Batteries

🙋‍♂️ Connect with Ryan Hammond on LinkedIn: Here

 

Patrick Gee:

Welcome back to Chemical Safety at Work™ the podcast. Mel and I have flown up to Melbourne today to meet with Ryan Hammond, director of Sealed Performance Batteries and Electrical Engineer. Ryan, can you tell us a little bit about your area of expertise and how you ended up working in this field?

Ryan Hammond:

Yeah, so I'm an electrical engineer by trade, started out my journey at Siemens as an automation engineer, so did a lot of tech support and product management and then went into worked for NHP, which is an electrical wholesaler in Australia, a privately owned electrical wholesaler. They do a lot of importing and distribution of electrical engineering products and that's where I met my two business partners there and worked in the electrical industry mainly, but it was a distribution side of the business that was very interesting for us. My business partner Greg, he sort of did the deal with uh seal performance batteries 2014. He purchased the business and again it was the distribution side and I was lucky enough to be offered to come on board as a shareholder and a director for my technical knowledge.

Ryan Hammond:

So, I worked with Greg for seven years at NHP and we saw very early at that point in time it was mainly an automotive business, automotive battery business, with a little bit into sort of energy stora ge, UPS, fire and security, but it was just battery related importing and distribution. And around about that time lithium ion was a flavour of the battery industry and we saw an opportunity, given my electrical background, to go and have a look at what was out there and try and actually bring some of these products into Australia and introduce sealed performance batteries into those new and emerging markets.

Melissa Hampton:

That's great. So what does Seal Performance Batteries do, and tell us a little bit about the business.

Ryan Hammond:

Yep. So we're professionals in energy storage and essentially we import batteries from all around the world really, and then sales market, technical support, those into the Australian market and we cover off on a whole range of industries. So a large part of the business is automotive batteries, so car truck marine starter batteries, if you like, and that was traditionally what Seal Performance Batteries was mainly focused on before we sort of took it over, but now we've expanded that into other areas such as energy storage, as I said, UPS, fire and security. We also do a lot in electric vehicle charging as well.

Ryan Hammond:

Battery monitoring systems do inverters for residential energy storage as well so we've expanded the business from just pure energy storage, but that's still our core business. There's no professionals in energy storage. Sure Would we recognise any of the business from just pure energy storage, but that's still our core business.

Patrick Gee:

There's no professionals in energy storage? Sure, would we recognise any of the brands that you supply to?

Ryan Hammond:

Y es. So, in the automotive space, Energizer is probably one of the most well-known brands, not so much in the automotive, but that is starting to become more and more prevalent. AC Delco is another one in the automotive space, yep, and then our own lithium bra nd is Invicta. Invicta Lithium Batteries is quite a well-known brand in the space as well. Yeah, for sure.

Melissa Hampton:

That's great. So, what are some key factors that set high quality lithium batteries apart from cheaper alternatives on the market?

Ryan Hammond:

I'd say probably the cell quality and the BMS quality are probably the two main items From there. It's then the construction of the lithium batteries themselves and then testing and certification. The challenge you've got on cell quality and BMS quality is actually, how do you tell?

Melissa Hampton:

And that's always the biggest challenge.

Ryan Hammond:

I think most reputable businesses know that there are sort of three key cell quality that comes out of a lot of the factories in China. There's an A cell, a B and then a C, which is generally a reused or repurposed cell. Yeah, okay, which is generally a reused or repurposed cell. Yeah, okay, a being the highest quality cell and B being one that's sort of rejected as the A type. Still new, but rejected as the A type.

Patrick Gee:

Sure.

Ryan Hammond:

And unfortunately, cost isn't always associated with quality. Although it is a good indicator, it's a fair indicator in this space, but not always. But again, those things are very hard to tell in a lithium-ion battery.

Patrick Gee:

Can you explain BMS?

Ryan Hammond:

to us? Yep. So BMS is a battery management system, also called PCB. It's a small protection device. Within 12-volt, 24 volt, 36, less so 48 volts. They should all have a BMS in order to protect the cells against misuse. So, apart from the ones that are going into a sort of an energy storage system like a 48 volt residential energy storage or a large one, 48-volt residential energy storage or a large one, the BMS in 12-volt or 24-volt, in one of those you know lead-acid replacement style is actually called a protection circuit monitoring. So PCM is a technical term for it, but it doesn't do any. It doesn't do a charge management, it's a protection device. So it just protects. If there's an over voltage it'll stop. It protects the open voltage opens a mosfet, puts into a short circuit over temperature will stop, stop the charge or discharge. Yeah, so it's really just a protection device there to protect the cells from misuse yeah sure, so pretty crucial.

Patrick Gee:

And then obviously not knowing the quality of the BMS and the cells is where testing becomes so important. Can you just walk us through the testing process that batteries undergo to meet industry standards?

Ryan Hammond:

Unfortunately, there really are no minimum mandatory standards required for bringing in lithium batteries and as a result, we do see a lot of low-cost, low-quality batteries coming in such that anyone can buy anything and bring them in. We're starting to see a few of the industry bodies introduce standards in their sector. The caravan industry has tried to implement a requirement around IC standard. The Clean Energy Council also has some requirements around their battery certifications. We're seeing in the marine sector as well starting to request the requirement for the batteries to have a certain level of certification.

Patrick Gee:

Yep. So you basically set the standards for yourselves at this point.

Ryan Hammond:

Yeah, we did, and we did that early on. Being an owner of the business, we have to be able to sleep at night.

Melissa Hampton:

Yeah.

Ryan Hammond:

So we wanted to make sure that the products that we were bringing in were of the highest quality and as safe as reasonably possible. So how do you ensure that? So we did it right from the start as well as so one of the things we did do we went and visited, I think, six or eight lithium these are lithium ion phosphate specifically manufacturers back in 2015, 2016.

Melissa Hampton:

Okay.

Ryan Hammond:

We actually went and visited the factories and saw how they were being manufactured, saw the quality, saw how they would do the testing at the factory level themselves, how they would do the testing at the factory level themselves. We selected a factory that we worked with that manufactured their own cells, manufactured their own, designed and manufactured their own BMS and then did their own assembly, which for us was quite important because we had our own requirements for the BMS and so that's one of the things that we had. That was our own IP.

Ryan Hammond:

But I think there was a.

Ryan Hammond:

We mentioned down the track about the certification and how we then ensure that, once a battery is certified, how you can't then swap lower-cost cells out for lower-cost BMSs, which is actually a very good question, and there are many factories in China that buy a cell from a cell manufacturer, buy a BMS from a BMS manufacturer, assemble them and then sell them as their own products and those particular manufacturers. It's quite common for them to say, okay, well, that cell particular cell manufacturers now got more expensive than we want and so the next batch will use this cell. And again, as I was saying before, unless you cut the battery open and have a look at exactly what's inside it that's very difficult to tell from shipment to shipment.

Melissa Hampton:

Yeah.

Ryan Hammond:

And so with the Invicta range, especially with the factory manufacturers, the cell, the BMS, and also does the assembly, so they won't be swapping cells out or BMSs out, and 2017, 2018 was when we first requested an IEC 62619 certification, which is an industrial standard, international safety standard for lithium batteries for industrial applications.

Patrick Gee:

Okay.

Ryan Hammond:

And we requested that at a battery level. So it doesn't only require the cell to be tested, but it requires the BMS and battery system to be tested as a complete unit for safety. And that particular one also required the factory was audited once a year. Okay, that's good.

Ryan Hammond:

So that was and we've sort of we've done that early days and was something that we promoted and we're really one of the first to the market in that 12-volt space and 24-volt space. It was ISC 62619 and the battery level was quite common in energy storage systems. So residential energy storage systems okay but the difference there is that they're those applications are in a house yeah, normally in a garage, yep they're.

Ryan Hammond:

they're matched to an inverter, which is the charger. Quite often they communicate with the charger and they don't go anywhere Yep. Whereas with the 12-volt range that are lead-acid swap out Yep. There was very little control of the application. The ones who sold it would go into caravans boats, whatever. And so we were very conscious of that safety aspect. Good For sure. So what are some of the actual physical tests that you undertake, whatever? And so we were very conscious of that safety aspect. That's good For sure.

Patrick Gee:

So what are some of the actual physical tests?

Ryan Hammond:

that you undertake. So the ISE certification is done in an independent, approved lab. There's generally an impact test or a puncture test.

Ryan Hammond:

There's a temperature test. There's a crush test, short circuit test, temperature tests. There's a crush test, short-circuit test, and there's a couple of different ways. So there's two most of the common standards that lithium ion is tested. There's a 62133, which is for portable applications and that's generally done at a cell level. So the cell's tested, so it's crushed, it's punctured, short-circuited, it's dropped, it's put in an oven for temperature and it needs to not catch fire. Essentially there's a few requirements, but essentially the cell itself can withstand those testing elements and not catch fire or be shot.

Melissa Hampton:

That's good, and does that have to be done frequently as well? Or volume-wise?

Ryan Hammond:

No, generally it's done on ASAL by a part number and then you get either a test report or, even better is, a test certificate which certifies that the test report is done by an independent test house and that they passed based on the correct parameters. And then once, as long as you're using that part number and that same cell over and over again with no modifications, then that's considered certified.

Ryan Hammond:

So the difference between the 62133 and 62619,. 62619 can be done at a cell level as well. So one's portable applications, one is industrial is that the 62619 also has a BMS component tested. So as well as doing on a complete battery system, you do a drop test, you do a crush test, do a short circuit test. It also has an overvoltage test. So if you've got an overvoltage across the terminals, does the BMS do what it's supposed to do?

Melissa Hampton:

which is protect.

Ryan Hammond:

Yeah, there's an overtemperature on the BMS, and there's a discharge test as well.

Melissa Hampton:

Yeah.

Ryan Hammond:

And there's also a cell-to-cell short circuit. So if you've got a pack of cells.

Patrick Gee:

What happens?

Ryan Hammond:

if one short circuit, the propagation of short circuits. Yeah okay, so that next level up that you can always have a cell tested, but it's a completely different beast when it's put with other cells and then a BMS on top, and then is charged and discharged, so um yeah, they're the two probably the two main ones that are floating around and are now becoming more and more prevalent and asked for more and more often.

Patrick Gee:

So, given that you're doing all of that testing by choice, essentially it's fair to say that not all testing is done equally across all brands and all sources.

Ryan Hammond:

No, that's right. I think most reputable dealers these days will work with batteries that have at least a cell level certification, and I think that that's being from the manufacturing level is seeing as more and more of a requirement than it was sort of when we first started eight years ago. Yep. So the 62133 at the cell level and even 62619 at the cell level is not uncommon these days.

Melissa Hampton:

Yep.

Ryan Hammond:

There are still some out there that don't.

Melissa Hampton:

Yep.

Patrick Gee:

But, it's not uncommon.

Ryan Hammond:

62619 at a cell level again is not as uncommon as it used to be. You couldn't get it. But it's still quite rare, relatively rare at a battery system level and that's really because of the cost. Yeah okay, it's not a again going back to before you have to. The battery is tested at a part number.

Melissa Hampton:

Yep.

Ryan Hammond:

So every part number has to be certified. So you know you've got. By the way, we still have our whole range 62619 certified because it's you know we've got 60, 70 batteries in the range.

Melissa Hampton:

Yep.

Ryan Hammond:

And so we've got a large portion of them. But that is expensive to do.

Melissa Hampton:

Yeah.

Ryan Hammond:

But even you know, even as simple as well, we've got a 120-amp-hour battery, certified and tested, which uses exactly the same cells and same BMS a 100. Same source, yeah, you've just got one less series of cells. Yeah, they can be argued that. Yeah, well it's pretty safe.

Melissa Hampton:

It's pretty safe. It's pretty safe yeah.

Ryan Hammond:

But some are not tested at all.

Melissa Hampton:

So what would you say, Ryan, are the common dangers associated with improperly stored batteries, particularly automotive and industrial settings?

Ryan Hammond:

Yeah, the storage of the batteries themselves, especially new batteries, we find is relatively safe. Lithium-ion batteries should all have as a minimum a UN 38.3 certification as well, which is a transport and that does test a lot of the environmental aspects heat, vibration, temperature, crushing. It sort of does test that, that the batteries perform in a safe manner, yep, not under use but during travel. So again, not all batteries have that certification. Yes, they should, but there's not all have them, so the storage of uh new is is quite uh, it's quite safe yeah.

Ryan Hammond:

They're. They're generally um, packed well and isolated from all the other ones. So automotive side it really just comes down to your dangerous goods code. Uh if you've got certain amounts of automotive batteries. They're a flooded battery so they have an acid content and that then comes under a DG code for storage, yep, but again they're sort of relatively safe as they are new sitting on the shelf. The challenges we see more so with the lithium than automotive. Automotive. You can come back leaking batteries and stuff, but it's not the end of the world.

Melissa Hampton:

Yeah, and people are probably more aware of it these days as well.

Ryan Hammond:

Yeah, and there's something you'd see physically if it's leaking. We see more of an issue with used lithium batteries that the BMS may have been damaged and it's not working. You don't know how they have been treated. We've never had an issue touch wood but used lithium batteries coming back. They're a little bit more careful on those and we tend to store them in a cabinet if we can tape the terminals up and do as we go through a little bit more in-depth procedure when we're storing the used lithium batteries until we get them picked up for recycling.

Patrick Gee:

Sure, that's good. What are some of the biggest challenges with maintaining a battery supply chain?

Ryan Hammond:

I think at the moment freight, especially with lithium, For all of the issues that are in the press, they're generally related to a different type of lithium chemistry than lithium ion phosphate is what we sell. So you know, e-scooters and e-bikes don't use lithium ion phosphate. Generally they use a lithium polymer. Okay.

Melissa Hampton:

Right.

Ryan Hammond:

And so that's a more dangerous lithium than a lithium ion phosphate.

Melissa Hampton:

Is there a reason behind why they use that type?

Ryan Hammond:

Yeah, because of the energy density, so you can fit more capacity into a smaller. So electric vehicles, for example, that was quite common NMC and NCA type lithium, because you can fit a lot more energy into a smaller space essentially, but they've also got a lower thermal runaway point, and so they are seen as more dangerous. And we've actually seen the movement away from those lithium technologies, even in EVs to a certain degree especially in residential energy storage.

Ryan Hammond:

So when they first came out, the likes of LG Chem had an NMC technology, I believe, and so did Tesla. They've sort of now moved towards a lithium-ion phosphate as well. Yeah, so there are certain aspects of the supply chain and I think freight is as I said, freight is one of them. It's very difficult even for us to export, even to New Zealand to get a couple of lithium batteries onto a ship to New. Zealand.

Patrick Gee:

I'm through a few hoops.

Ryan Hammond:

But even with all of the paperwork. So that's probably the at the moment the highest cost and pain in the neck thing really.

Melissa Hampton:

Yeah, the freight, and I imagine that's different between the type of freight. So air freight, sea freight.

Ryan Hammond:

Yeah Well, no one will take lithium on air at all.

Melissa Hampton:

Too dangerous.

Ryan Hammond:

Yeah, it's all sea freight. Yeah, and you know it's all well and good when you're doing full containers, everything's like that, but putting lithium in with a mixed container introduces other challenges. Yeah, so yeah, aside from that, everything it's got the normal supply chain issues.

Melissa Hampton:

Yep for any business.

Ryan Hammond:

Yeah, for any business, yeah, yeah.

Melissa Hampton:

That's good and, I guess, expanding on that, what role does battery technology play in advancing the automotive industry?

Ryan Hammond:

It's an interesting question and I sort of had to think about it. I'm not sure which one came first. Yep, interesting question and I sort of had to think about it. I'm not sure which one came first. Yeah, I know that the increase of lithium ion technologies certainly has helped in the expansion of electric vehicles, so you went from lead acid, which was heavy for its capacity, slow to recharge and had all of the issues with lead acid to then lithium coming on and gaining more awareness and traction and that, yes, I don't know which one came first.

Ryan Hammond:

I don't know whether the automotive industry was pushing the battery industry or the battery industry was working with them.

Ryan Hammond:

But that has certainly sped up the development of lithium ion and therefore also the increase in electric vehicles because they've got a battery technology which is usable as opposed to really the lead acid not so much. But we also see the automotive space pushes a lot of the technology on batteries, like in the 48-volt area, for example. You know they moved to a 48-volt platform. So I think there's probably a bit of on each side of the fence Back and forth yeah which ones are dragging?

Ryan Hammond:

which ones are into the newer technologies and the requirements for what the newer technologies are. That's good. Yeah, there's probably a bit on both sides of the fence there.

Patrick Gee:

There must be massive investment in battery technology research now, with just how rapidly EVs are being adopted, now wanting to see Further mileage, further mileage that's the one.

Ryan Hammond:

Further mileage, yeah yeah, and I think it is, and you'll see the increase in demand that the electric vehicle sector has had on lithium has meant there's a massive increase in the number of factories that are now making lithium in China. I mean when we first went over there in 2015. There would have been six or eight major factories.

Melissa Hampton:

And everybody knew that and they're still there.

Ryan Hammond:

The large ones, cattle vision. There's a few more BYD, but now, if you go, there's hundreds of them.

Melissa Hampton:

Wow.

Ryan Hammond:

And a lot of those lead acid battery manufacturers moved into lithium, lead-acid battery manufacturers moved into lithium and there was a lot of new lithium manufacturers pop up because, of the amount of government assistance that was available and just the demand that the increasing electric vehicle sales created Yep.

Patrick Gee:

From a consumer's point of view, how did they determine, or what should they look into to determine, what is going to be a good quality battery? How do they know other than just having to trust the supplier?

Ryan Hammond:

Yeah, so actually that's a good question. So I sat on the board of the Australian Battery Industry Association up until very recently the Australian Battery Industry Association up until very recently and one of the things that we put out was a consumer's buy guide for lithium batteries. So just some simple things to look out for and ask the question of your factory or who you're buying the batteries of.

Ryan Hammond:

We always said we started with certification, so and that can be ISE test certificate 62133 or 62619. At least ask the question have you got a test certificate? Have you got a test report, a UN 38.3 test certificate or test report? Do you know what's in it, what type of cells they're using, what type of BMS they're using? So it was really just a list of things to ask questions about Yep, and if they can't answer the questions they can't produce, then you know well, the battery might be fine, but they actually don't really know whether it is or it isn't.

Ryan Hammond:

Yep. So, it's probably best to avoid the risk One that does have all of that information and that can answer the questions that you're asking.

Patrick Gee:

Yep.

Ryan Hammond:

So that document is available on the ABIA. So Australian Battery Industry Association website for their members.

Patrick Gee:

Okay.

Ryan Hammond:

It's a free download that was produced at a board level for the members to utilise.

Melissa Hampton:

Okay.

Ryan Hammond:

Because that question came up a lot. Yeah, where do you tell?

Melissa Hampton:

Yeah, yeah.

Ryan Hammond:

You can. There's for importers or resellers, so not talking consumers here, as simple as taking a lid off one.

Melissa Hampton:

Yeah.

Ryan Hammond:

And then having a look, is it packed correctly? Yeah, you know the assembly, as well as the cells and the BMS, as I've said before, the assembly inside the case of the lithium can tell a lot about the quality yeah.

Ryan Hammond:

Because generally the actual pack itself is quite a bit smaller than the case. Okay, because they'll use standard case sizes, yep, and you can take the lid off, and quite often they're just packed with foam. Okay, it's just shoved in there and they're just. They fill the gaps with some packing foam All right. Okay, and it's got, it moves around. You can shake it so simple as that. Yep the cable, the gauge of the cables from your terminals does that? Does the gauge match the rating on the, the current rating?

Ryan Hammond:

So if it says it can, it's allowed to pull 100 amps. Does the gauge of the thickness of the cables actually match the fact that?

Melissa Hampton:

it can do 100 amps Yep.

Ryan Hammond:

Is there a temperature? The BMS has got a temperature protection in there. Is there a temperature sensor?

Patrick Gee:

sitting there.

Ryan Hammond:

So those sorts of things can all be told. You can see it very easily. You can't tell what type of cell it is. That's very difficult. The quality of the BMS to a certain degree, but the construction, if you take a lid off and you need to be obviously qualified. I'm certainly not recommending any consumer take the lid off the lithium ion battery. But yeah, if you're qualified and capable of doing it, then taking the lid off and having an inspection is a really good way of getting an idea of the quality.

Ryan Hammond:

Yeah, and for us, we have samples of our batteries that you can take the guts out.

Melissa Hampton:

Yeah, that's something that we're happy to show. Yeah.

Ryan Hammond:

And I think again, the reputable, most reputable dealers are happy to show you.

Melissa Hampton:

Yeah, be transparent about that yeah.

Patrick Gee:

For your average end user consumers, say, someone who just wants to buy an e-scooter for their personal use, who probably isn't going to go do all that due diligence on their battery. It's a little bit more tricky.

Ryan Hammond:

It is, yeah, and especially with e-scooters, because it is a different lithium chemistry. What I would say and I'm by far not an expert in that space, but what I would say on that is to buy from a reputable dealer and to also have a matched charge with those ones. Quite often they can be charged from a charge you've got lying around which is not always matched to the battery technology.

Melissa Hampton:

That's interesting. Do you have any tips on how consumers should look after their batteries or get more out of their batteries?

Ryan Hammond:

For our 12-volt ones. Again, I won't talk scooters or air bikes, because it's not in our sort of wheelhouse, but for ours. They're a lithium battery, so you should treat them. They're full of electronics as well, so they've got a PCB in them. So, wherever possible, store them in a in a uh reasonable temperature. Avoid heavy contact from them, you know.

Melissa Hampton:

Having said that, the batteries the good quality batteries are designed to be installed in caravans on the outside of the caravans and and take a and take a beating.

Patrick Gee:

Yep.

Ryan Hammond:

Um, but yeah, just monitor them and make sure that you are getting. You know, a lot of them have Bluetooth these days so you can tell if they're getting fully charged and fully discharged and that the temperature is within reasonable windows, those sorts of things. If we get one back, we'll always check that. We'll do a full charge and make sure that it protects at the top of the charge. We'll do a full discharge. Make sure the BMS protects at the bottom of the charge when it does.

Ryan Hammond:

You can then test the capacity, see how much capacity is remaining, and then we'll do things like a short circuit test. So is the BMS actually working as it should? Yeah, yeah, and again, I don't recommend our customers, consumers, do that. But there are, there are businesses that will do a quick check for you and they should be doing if somebody, if you send a battery back for warranty that's normally what the supplier will do.

Melissa Hampton:

So how do you see the future of battery technology evolving, particularly in terms of sustainability and performance?

Ryan Hammond:

Yeah, I think we spoke about this a little bit before, Especially with the increase in lithium battery technology. There was nothing happening in battery technology for, I don't know, probably 20 or 30 years really.

Melissa Hampton:

Yeah.

Ryan Hammond:

Lead acid, was it yeah? And then lithium ion came on board, and then we've seen. There's new technologies coming in that we hear about on a you know, probably a monthly, one monthly basis. It's just something new comes up, pops up and we have a look at it. And even over the time that we started with lithium ion phosphate. From there we've seen sort of aqueous energy, which is a saltwater battery come and go. There's an eco flow, which is a flow battery Australia.

Ryan Hammond:

they sort of come and go on, there's a few other technologies that were seen to be the next big thing for sustainability, yep For safety aspects, but what we've along the journey, there's always been an issue of it's too high cost to manufacture.

Melissa Hampton:

Yeah.

Ryan Hammond:

It was too heavy to get to site, the life cycle wasn't quite there, the maintenance was too high, yeah, and so it all comes back to that A commercialisation Yep. Can it be that technology be actually commercialised Yep In an efficient and profitable?

Melissa Hampton:

business Yep.

Ryan Hammond:

And the lithium was one that sort of picked up and, as I said before, now you've seen, you'll see there's hundreds of factories that are making it. Probably the next one we feel is a sodium ion and that's. We've been over to China and seen a lot of the lithium ion factories and now also spending a lot of money on developing sodium ion, and there's some benefits to sodium ion versus lithium ion. One lithium is quite a rare metal.

Melissa Hampton:

Yeah, so that's Mining. For that, correct? Yeah, it's quite expensive as well, right, because it's a rare metal. Yeah, so that's Mining for that Correct.

Ryan Hammond:

Yeah, it's quite expensive as well. Right, it's a finite resource and the sodium ion is seen as eventually a lower cost option. At the moment it's not and a safer option as well, and it has some benefits that lithium ion doesn't have. So wider temperature range. Yeah, For negative, say lithium-ion phosphate, for example, you shouldn't charge below zero degrees.

Patrick Gee:

Celsius.

Ryan Hammond:

Okay, sodium-ion doesn't have that limitation. Okay, it's a little heavier. So there's always pluses and minuses, but I think that that's probably going to be the next one that we see more and more of.

Melissa Hampton:

Yeah sure?

Patrick Gee:

Yeah, because you do see stories come out every so often about a new battery technology or a new electrolyte that is proposed to dramatically increase battery safety and that sort of thing. So do you think a technology that improves safety alone will be seen as enough to be widely adopted, or it needs to have that?

Ryan Hammond:

I think there needs to be other benefits.

Patrick Gee:

And.

Ryan Hammond:

I think that that's probably been shown even now. I mean, there'll be cheaper technologies available for e-scooter batteries.

Melissa Hampton:

Yeah.

Ryan Hammond:

But they'll be heavier. They won't last as long. It's low recharge.

Melissa Hampton:

So, ultimately the consumer will demand, feel the flow of effects.

Ryan Hammond:

Yeah, the demand, the consumer, will push the avenue in which ones take off. But they do need to be cost effective and it does need to be profitable as well for the manufacturers.

Melissa Hampton:

That's one thing and there needs to be as well for the manufacturers. That's one thing.

Ryan Hammond:

And there needs to be some benefits for the consumer Safety. It's an interesting one because at the moment they've seen as being perceived as being unsafe. There are a few out there that probably are, but people still buy them. Yeah, probably are.

Patrick Gee:

Yeah, but there's still people still buy them. Yeah, it must be tricky, because, as a whole, good quality batteries would be, as a whole, safe and incidents will be very rare. It's just those few manufacturers or suppliers that might be doing the wrong thing. Or Cut corners. Cutting corners that are kind of bringing the industry into disrepute to some degree.

Ryan Hammond:

Yeah, yeah, and I think on that sort of in that. Going back to that e-scooter, they cop a battering as well.

Melissa Hampton:

Yeah.

Ryan Hammond:

They're generally mounted on the bottom of the scooter. So you're going up gutters going over?

Melissa Hampton:

rocks.

Ryan Hammond:

This thing doesn't like to damage your cell in that way and then go and charge it, especially with a charger that doesn't shut off.

Melissa Hampton:

Yeah.

Ryan Hammond:

So, yeah, I think there's a combination of factors. Yeah, yeah, it's one of those things.

Melissa Hampton:

So what advice would you give to work health safety managers looking to improve their battery management overall and safety protocols?

Ryan Hammond:

Yeah, actually, and I don't mean to promote the Battery Industry Association again, but they've recently put a document together for the safe storage of batteries, and that was lead acid and lithium-ion batteries as well.

Ryan Hammond:

Again, it was a question that had come up a lot and the rules and regulations are very different in different states even, and so it was seen as something that was required to put all into one document. Now the document's big and I know the guy's trying to get it to a summarised version that is useful, but all the information is in there. The challenge is there's no real, especially with lithium-ion. I don't know whether the requirements and the standards and the policing and enforcement of standards.

Ryan Hammond:

it certainly hasn't caught up to the actual quantity of actually batteries being sold and stored, and so, generally looking through all of the documentation, there's very little specific requirements around safe storage of lithium batteries. I think that's probably one of the challenges. Sure, but there is a document there.

Patrick Gee:

Again, you can go through and have a read of some specifics in your state give you some ideas around what best practice, but that's probably Do you just want to talk briefly about the work that the Battery Industry Association does as a whole in general?

Ryan Hammond:

Yeah, so the Australian Battery Industry Association is there for the battery importers of new batteries, so the focus is generally on new batteries. There's the ABRI. They work very closely with.

Melissa Hampton:

ABRI. Abri is the Recycling Industry Association so they do the end of life.

Ryan Hammond:

Australian Battery Industry Association look after sort of the start of life and generally the new batteries coming in and being sold and being transported and stored and they offer that service to their members. On the likes of, as we've said before, sort of a best practice guide for your lithium-ion batteries, what to look out for, they've just facilitated the safe storage for batteries as a whole. There was also some labelling, so they did a whole piece on what to look out for and what the minimum requirements for your labelling of lead-acid batteries as well.

Ryan Hammond:

So those sorts of things to help our members who are generally either the larger ones are manufacturers, but generally they're importers and resellers.

Melissa Hampton:

Yeah great. Does that include safety data sheets as well? Is that part of the process? Yeah, it does.

Ryan Hammond:

Yep, Yep. So there are safety data sheets and again there's minimum requirements of safety data sheets. There's a global GHS requirement, so it's assisting the members on how to comply as best that they can.

Melissa Hampton:

Well, thank you very much for joining the Chemical Safety at Work podcast, Ryan. It's been a pleasure to have you here today. Thank you very much for our subscribers for listening in. We'll drop Ryan's details in the show notes below for anyone that's interested in learning a little bit more about Ryan, what he does and the business as well.

Patrick Gee:

Yep, soon we'll be having Catherine Hull from the Australian Battery Recycling Industry Association on the podcast as well to be talking a little bit more about that end of battery life and how to deal with batteries after they've been used up or damaged or need to be disposed of. So, yeah, thanks again, ryan, for joining us. I hope everyone finds that conversation really interesting. I know we did get a lot out of it, so cheers.

Melissa Hampton:

Thank you.

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Mel Hampton

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Pat Gee

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